Re: [colorforth] Re: objects and forth

["John R. Strohm" <strohm@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

The question was whether learning C, Smalltalk, or LISP before attempting to 
learn FORTH would help or hurt.

Smalltalk is, as near as I can tell without spending a LOT of time learning it 
in detail, inextricably tangled up in twisted weave of classes.  None of C, 
LISP, or FORTH have that particular feature.  All can be extended with classes. 
C has two main ways, Objective C and C++.  LISP does it with CLOS.  FORTH, you 
roll your own, but look at CREATE-DOES> for a starting point.

It is not clear to me that requiring the student to master many intricacies of 
object-oriented design and programming is all that likely to help him learn the 
mindset of a language that explicitly does not include object orientation.

On The Gripping Hand, as Niven & Pournelle fans say, the RIGHT way to learn 
FORTH is to grab a copy of Leo Brodie's wonderful book "Starting FORTH", and 
work through it.  Follow that up with "Thinking FORTH", by the same author.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Aleksej Saushev" <asau@xxxxxxxx>
To: <colorforth@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 11:23 AM
Subject: [colorforth] Re: objects and forth


> "John R. Strohm" <strohm@xxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
>
> > Learning C first will probably do some damage.
> >
> > Learning Smalltalk first will probably do some serious damage.
>
> Which way? I don't believe that.
>
> I'm more inclined to believe that learning Smalltalk first will cure you
> from Forth DIY disease. At least with Smalltalk you get complete system,
> usable "mind amplifier."
>
> > Learning LISP first, if you learn it RIGHT (i.e., from SICP),
> > will probably help a lot more than it hurts.
> >
> > Recall that there are two categories of computer languages:
> > LISP, and everything else.
>
> And how much does Smalltalk differ from Lisp in conceptual simplicity of
> base language?
>
> I'm pretty sure, that if you learn Smalltalk right, it will help more
> than learning Forth rigth. Just compare Squeak to equally licensed Forth,
> pForth or FICL. Feel the difference. Compare it to Gforth and feel it again.
>
>
> --
> HE CE3OH...
>
>
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