Re: MISC-d Digest V00 #20; Linux+Toas+Mips.

["Wayne Morellini" <waynemm@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Sorry for the deay.


>From: "Samuel A. Falvo II" <kc5tja@armored.net>
>To: Wayne Morellini <waynemm@hotmail.com>
3602B-100000@dolphin.openprojects.net>

Now I remember, not Nintendo but the Dolphin Forth OS project, how is that 
going?  I never joined myself because I was interested in doing something a 
bit (Aus speak) better than what Toas is now.

>
>To be more accurate, AmigaOS sits on top of TAOS, and uses Linux only as a
>market bootstrap.  Future implementations will be hosted on native
>hardware, without Linux.

Yes this is exciting, you get a software market straight up.  The 50 K of 
virtual code for the Java machine that can be translated to native code by a 
10K translator sounds good for a Misc p32.  Instantly you can say to your 
users that it does internet (itv) and Java, and has lots of programs 
(potential).  Pity that the PC partners have made it impossible to have a 
Java platform independent internet, which makes life difficult for Itv type 
companies.  But the Toas virtual code system can work much faster on many 
machines (but not Misc), and Toas outperforms Java in almost every technical 
arena now.  Also there is some form of pocket Linux being worked upon.

>
> > For the person looking at making a Mips based machine this would be an
> > excellent choice.
>
>Agreed -- a MIPS engine, especially with a native TAOS implementation,
>will offer the performance *punch* that has been missing from x86-based
>systems for a long time.  So would a PowerPC engine, but frankly, neither
>IBM nor Motorola seem to be trying very hard to get those into the desktop
>arena.
>
Don't worry about the hardwaree side, a system can be rigged together it's 
the software OS and building a software market that will cost the most, and 
Toas/Linux gives an answer to this.   The Toas OS requires miminal porting 
efforts.  What people don't realise is that Toas is made to maximise 
performance of programs that can be directly loaded on any toas system 
without porting despite the processor.  All the PC Toas stuff will work on 
mips and PowerPC, strong arm etc even if the OS for those systems haven't 
been implemented yet (platform independence).  As a future gaming standards 
(and for some reason Sony has interest) you write once run the things on all 
new processors.  Sony have actually had a Linux developement system for the 
Playstation 2 but rejected the use of it as too primitive technically among 
consistent rumours of a new computer platform (non-PC).

From
www.amiga.com
Here are a few quotes from the site in the Amiga World section published 
April.  It is worth a look because Toas (and QNX) are good example of 
Miminial full featured Virtual OS's.  I have thought of doing one based on 
Misc P2x code, but have over objectives, maybe somebody might like to try 
it, a misc/stack based virtual OS suitable for most stack machines?

http://www.amiga.com/press/zine/4-17-00/AW5.htm

Important to Amiga's plans are the partnerships forged by Amiga with 
TAO-Group, Sun, Red Hat, and Corel. With the growing number of Linux 
distributions and their growing incompatibilities, Amiga will present 
programmers with a common consumer layer to attract their support. The Ami 
environment will significantly reduce deployment of applications and content 
due to Amiga's partnerships and the integration of TAO's Elate software into 
the Amiga environment.

The Amiga environment uses TAO's Elate as a foundation. A main feature of 
Elate is its Virtual Processor (VP) programming model. Instead of concerning 
itself with the hardware underneath, Elate uses massive abstraction that 
presents the operating system with a dynamic list of services it will 
provide based on the hardware below it. These services will then fulfill the 
requests of the applications above it by arbitrating them. (Please see 
'Inside The New Amiga' and 'Entering The AmiVerse' for more details).

Moss emphasized that with hardware being treated as a commodity--and citing 
Be Inc.'s problems with providing drivers for even common items--it was more 
important to provide programmers with a quick and flexible environment. 
Because Amiga found a way to combine the best technologies within the Amiga 
environment, flexibility is achieved. With TAO's Virtual Processor, a 
programmer can truly compile once and run anywhere. The list of supported VP 
interpreters includes X86, MIPS, PowerPC, ARM, StrongARM, MCore (Motorola's 
new embedded CPU of choice), and a growing list of others.

  To get programmers familiar with Virtual Processor programming as soon as 
possible, Amiga announced the details of the soon to be release Developer 
Reference Platform (DRP). Hosted on a special version of Red Hat Linux, the 
machine will feature an AMD K6-II 500 MHz CPU, a GeForce Prophet 3D video 
card, a Soundblaster compatible sound card, 64 megs of RAM, and TAO's Elate 
software preloaded.
Some points on the DRP should be noted. First, Amiga chose to use less then 
cutting edge hardware in the DRP to emphasize just how efficient their 
environment will be. This also reduces the cost of each unit. Second, the 
Ami environment will be preloaded on all Developer Reference Platforms. This 
prevents pirating (Amiga will only support developer machines purchased 
directly from them). Third, while the DRP is hosted on Linux and a X86 
processor, Amiga consumer products will most often be run natively--not 
hosted on another operating system--and therefore, will run much faster then 
they do on the initial DRP.

A demonstration of the Beta Amiga environment was presented at the banquet. 
The demonstration highlighted the systems capabilities by running several 
Java Applets simultaneously at good speed. The systems

?????Look at this:

ease of coding was emphasized by demonstrating Doom and Quake which each 
took less than an hour to port. Advanced video layer technology
?????

was also displayed by applying color filters over running demo programs and 
by showing the ability to present non-square GUI objects. To demonstrate 
this feature a Boing ball was manipulated through the transparent face of a 
clock program running in front of the Boing balls. In spite of the fact that 
the system took a performance hit by being hosted on top of Linux, the 
demonstrations ran at impressive speeds.

http://www.amiga.com/press/zine/4-17-00/AW8.htm

Another part of the TAO suite is intent. (Yes, it's spelled all in lower 
case). intent comes in two pieces; the JTE (Java Technology Edition) and the 
intent Multimedia Toolkit. Quite simply, intent provides the best Java 
engine anywhere. Java programs work under intent the way they were intended 
to work; fast, very fast. At Amiga 2K the

?????
TAO environment was shown running Doom and Quake at the same time. In fact, 
several Quake sessions were going at once. Then the demonstrator fired off 
several utility programs as well. Nothing slowed down. Most impressive of 
all, each of these programs was running in a separate Java session, and as 
noted, each was blazingly fast.
?????

Perhaps even more amazing was the fact that the TAO products were executing 
on top of Linux, so there was another entire OS level between them and the 
hardware. The hardware was a powerful 500 MHz PC, but you'd certainly not 
see this level of performance from a standard Windows machine. One secret of 
the TAO speed is the modular way it handles Java. Only the pieces of code 
needed to do the work at any given time are actually loaded into memory. As 
a result, the computer can operate at efficiencies that can't be duplicated 
by other implementations of a Java engine.

?????
It's also possible to eliminate the host operating system entirely. Linux 
could be completely removed from the equation, and TAO could run directly on 
the hardware in native mode. This alone would provide another significant 
boost in speed and efficiencies, perhaps as much as 35% to 50%.
?????

This hardware independence, combined with the efficiencies of the TAO 
software, also means just about any processor or computing platform can be 
used. This is how it's possible to envision the Amiga environment running on 
everything from cellular phones to the most powerful computing platforms 
available. In fact, Sun has already demonstrated Java games running on 
cellular phones using TAO. There's no reason why those phones couldn't carry 
the Amiga logo of compatibility if desired.

See also:
http://www.amiga.com/press/zine/4-17-00/AW7.htm
For the Amiverse.

I am happy to see somebody finally implementing this sort of stuff.

Wayne.
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