Re: questions (about x21)

["Richard S. Westmoreland" <sagalore@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

> All that is very nice but I have no use for compiled ROMs (I wouldn't even
> if I were using the C.H. Ting board, but I'm not even sure the ROMs would
> be useful at all with a different board.  At any rate, I thoroughly intend
> to reinvent that stuff myself.  The S21 simulator sounds interesting but
> it's not really what I'm looking for (I have never found simulation to be
> useful before: if the on-chip development environment is so shitty that
> it's worth the effort to simulate then I'm not going to get much done
> anyways -- it's not llike I'm building an embedded system that will be
> hiding in a VCR, this thing is supposed to have a good interface for
> debugging).  If it has the instruction set listed in its documentation
> that might be useful, but last time I looked the S21 was all based around
> the F21.  In fact, everything on Jeff's site provides very much
> information on the F21 but practically nothing provides any info on the
> P21 (definittely not anything detailed and definitive) and I didn't see
> anything listing differences (i.e., are the instruction sets the same?)
> I want current draw information, pin out, instruction set.  When
> this information is provided to me I will buy the P21.
>
> >Dr. Ting provides best service, talk to him! The MuP21-manual covers a
lot
> >of stuff and covers different versions of chips and testboards. It maybe
> >very confusing when studying the manual on its own.
>
> Does the manual include all of the information I'm after? (current draw,
> pinuot, instruction set)  If so, I'll just buy that and consider myself
> dealing with your commmon semi-proprietary company that proudly
> misunderstands the hobbyist customer base.  (even Intel publishes data
> sheets online for free!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)  !!! !!! !!! !!!! !!! JEFF
> FOX READ HERE EVEN INTEL PUBLISHES DATASHEETS FOR FREE (and I'm not
> talking about tshe F21 here!)!!!  I've not even had too much trouble
> finding them.  If I'm not going to get the level of developer support
> for a develooper-only chip like the P21 that I would get from a consumer-
> targetted chip for the x86, then I don't know what yuo're thinking.

Intel pays people do write extensive documentation.  Many people.  Jeff has
to spend money, and is pretty much on his own.  Big difference.  :0/
Besides, the P21 only happens to be on the site for archival purposes, in
relation to the F21 which is Jeff's chip.

>
> >If you are really going to explore P21 in order to get a feeling for
these
> >chips ( I started that way, too ) feel free to contact me. I can send
> >you a lot of stuff to start with.
>
> Thanks.
>
> >I'm still so excited about these Forth-engines. I have much fun and learn
> >a lot and I have real hardware meanwhile. So I can test nearly everything
> >on these chips and it convinced me even more, that Chuck's design
> >methods are outstanding. I love these little toys a lot! ;-)
> >
> >I deeply admire Chucks's obsession in getting the most out of a
> >small piece of silicon and Jeff's and Dr. Tings research and engineering
> >efforts to bring up MISC-computers. Thanks to them.
>
> Yeah, I'm really glad that they did all this stuff.  It's some oof the
> most interesting stuff happening.  it's just extremely frustrating to see
> that they've doone all the hard parts (design, implementation, fab,
> testing) but they've messed up on the easy parts (providing enough
> documentation so that a low-budget hobbyist could mmake an informed
> decision).

I'm very slowly in the process of putting together enough documentation for
a website that will probably meet your needs.  If anyone has info, articles,
images, etc. of the P21, F21 then send it my way please so this process goes
a little quicker.